What grinds your gears?

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Andy92
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Re: What grinds your gears?

Post by Andy92 »

NATO is the lone reason why Russia hasn’t launched a full on crusade across Europe. Western nations aren’t perfect by any means but blaming NATO for pushing Putin into this war is the kind of disinformation coming straight from Putin’s propaganda machine. Putin is in this war because he’s power hungry and evil. Would you argue he’s not those two things?
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:48 am NATO is the lone reason why Russia hasn’t launched a full on crusade across Europe. Western nations aren’t perfect by any means but blaming NATO for pushing Putin into this war is the kind of disinformation coming straight from Putin’s propaganda machine. Putin is in this war because he’s power hungry and evil. Would you argue he’s not those two things?
I'm not a defender of Putin, but I have to wonder if you've seen too many superhero movies (with clearly defined goodies and baddies etc) if you think this is all happening because of one man's evil hunger for power.

You can dislike Putin and think that Russia's actions in Ukraine are wrong... AND... at the same time you can feel that the US/NATO need to accept some of the blame for how things have turned out. There are many sensible, well-informed people out there who share this view. Noam Chomsky being one of them for Pete's sake. To think of people who feel this way as puppets of Putin is childish.

Andy92
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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It just gives credence to Putin’s actions when others throw him a bone and say it’s not all his fault. NATO is the only thing keeping him out of Poland so far. I shudder to imagine the state of Europe today if NATO didn’t exist. We’d be looking at Hitler’s campaign reborn.
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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:39 pm It just gives credence to Putin’s actions when others throw him a bone and say it’s not all his fault. NATO is the only thing keeping him out of Poland so far. I shudder to imagine the state of Europe today if NATO didn’t exist. We’d be looking at Hitler’s campaign reborn.
The truth should always be sought no matter who it might favour in some way.

And comparing Putin to Hitler is just silly. He is a tyrant but his aims are nowhere near the same.

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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:49 pm And comparing Putin to Hitler is just silly. He is a tyrant but his aims are nowhere near the same.
Because NATO exists.

Europe didn’t think Hitler was that ambitious when he invaded Poland either. How’d that work out?
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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:57 pm
Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:49 pm And comparing Putin to Hitler is just silly. He is a tyrant but his aims are nowhere near the same.
Because NATO exists.

Europe didn’t think Hitler was that ambitious when he invaded Poland either. How’d that work out?
Nonsense. If I form an alliance against bears and then go around poking them, I can't pretend that I'm the good guy when the bear bites back.

It was a US backed coup which started the process of destabilising Ukraine back in 2014. If you don't know about these events then I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength.

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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:13 pm It was a US backed coup which started the process of destabilising Ukraine back in 2014. If you don't know about these events then I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength.
I’m aware. I’m also aware Putin is dropping bombs on hospitals in 2022.
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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:42 pm
Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:13 pm It was a US backed coup which started the process of destabilising Ukraine back in 2014. If you don't know about these events then I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength.
I’m aware. I’m also aware Putin is dropping bombs on hospitals in 2022.
Which I agree is awful. Just as awful as the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan back in 2015

Like I said, I think Russia's actions in Ukraine are wrong... but I won't dumb myself down by not acknowledging the role US/NATO have played in getting us here.

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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Russia also bombed a mall in Ukraine today that had 1,000 people inside. This mall wasn’t even around an active war zone so it’s a deliberate attack on civilians.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/11078543 ... kremenchuk

But I guess this is NATO’s fault. I guess I have a lot to learn about geopolitical events.
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:57 pm Which I agree is awful. Just as awful as the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan back in 2015
This was an awful event but do you really expect Putin to issue an apology for his actions and offer payments of reparations for his bombings? Because that’s what Obama did after Kunduz.
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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:59 pm Russia also bombed a mall in Ukraine today that had 1,000 people inside. This mall wasn’t even around an active war zone so it’s a deliberate attack on civilians.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/11078543 ... kremenchuk

But I guess this is NATO’s fault. I guess I have a lot to learn about geopolitical events.
You're making this quite silly now. Think of it this way...

If I provoke you into doing something awful to someone else, then you are to blame for your actions, but I am also to blame for provoking you.

US/NATO meddling in Ukraine in an attempt to stick a finger in Russia's eye... is the provocation.

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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:04 pm
Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:57 pm Which I agree is awful. Just as awful as the US bombing of a hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan back in 2015
This was an awful event but do you really expect Putin to issue an apology for his actions and offer payments of reparations for his bombings? Because that’s what Obama did after Kunduz.
I don't put much stock in apologies. After all the US is still going after Julian Assange for exposing some of the country's other misdeeds abroad.

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Re: What grinds your gears?

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So what would be your solution to stopping Putin if you’re Ukraine? Stop poking the bear, roll over, and let him take over your country?
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:11 pm So what would be your solution to stopping Putin if you’re Ukraine? Stop poking the bear, roll over, and let him take over your country?
I would be doing my utmost to restore peace. Keep in mind, the US military industrial complex don't care about Ukrainian lives. They wouldn't mind Russia becoming bogged down in a war that lasts for years and years.

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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:15 pm I would be doing my utmost to restore peace. Keep in mind, the US military industrial complex don't care about Ukrainian lives. They wouldn't mind Russia becoming bogged down in a war that lasts for years and years.
And how would you restore peace with Putin? He doesn’t want peace. You didn’t really give a specific answer for how Ukraine can get out of this war without fighting back.

Are you in favor of Ukraine allowing more land to be annexed back to Russia?
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Re: my upstair neighbours are Ukrainian, lol

Post by Timotheus »

I don't know about you guys, but if there were bear attacks over here, I think I'd be in favor of trying to do something about it. I'd might even form an alliance with my upstair neighbour.

Wouldn't want to hurt the bears' feelings though.
Last edited by Timotheus on Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

Andy92
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Re: What grinds your gears?

Post by Andy92 »

Timotheus wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:30 pm I don't know about you guys, but if there were bear attacks over here, I think I'd be in favor of trying to do something about it. I'd might even form an alliance with my upstair neighbour.

Wouldn't want to hurt the bear's feelings though.
You’re supposed to let the bear eat your foot so you can save your hand, duh.
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Dan Dando
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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:20 pm
Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:15 pm I would be doing my utmost to restore peace. Keep in mind, the US military industrial complex don't care about Ukrainian lives. They wouldn't mind Russia becoming bogged down in a war that lasts for years and years.
And how would you restore peace with Putin? He doesn’t want peace. You didn’t really give a specific answer for how Ukraine can get out of this war without fighting back.

Are you in favor of Ukraine allowing more land to be annexed back to Russia?
What a preposterous reply. You're speaking with someone on an Alter Bridge forum. I work in customer service, lol. How would I know the best way to restore peace?

All I know is that NATO/the US need to look at themselves and take some responsibility for where we are. A lot of people with a good grasp on recent history would arrive at the same conclusion.

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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:31 pm
Timotheus wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:30 pm I don't know about you guys, but if there were bear attacks over here, I think I'd be in favor of trying to do something about it. I'd might even form an alliance with my upstair neighbour.

Wouldn't want to hurt the bear's feelings though.
You’re supposed to let the bear eat your foot so you can save your hand, duh.
The right answer is to leave the bear alone :lol

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Re: What grinds your gears?

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Dan Dando wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:39 pm
Andy92 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:31 pm
Timotheus wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:30 pm I don't know about you guys, but if there were bear attacks over here, I think I'd be in favor of trying to do something about it. I'd might even form an alliance with my upstair neighbour.

Wouldn't want to hurt the bear's feelings though.
You’re supposed to let the bear eat your foot so you can save your hand, duh.
The right answer is to leave the bear alone :lol
The bear is currently napping, digesting the neighbor's three years old daughter. Might as well take a nap as well.
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anguyen92 wrote:
Oh well. Deal with it.

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