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I'd raise my hand if Alter Bridge asked a sea of people if they should change producers.. Jus'sayin

I don't have a problem with Cauterize but then again I don't really pay attention to production when listening to Tremonti Solo stuff. The only album that makes me think if a 5 year old mixed it is AB3.

I like Elvis but it be cool to see what other producer can do for AB.

The weird thing about Mark is he keeps saying he wants to improve constantly and not repeat himself whatsoever. But meanwhile, he's unwilling to change the producer he's been working with for 9 years.

What about taking a leap of faith and not doing the easy thing for once ?
As "talented" as Elvis is, he knows Mark way too much to have any creative input on him anymore.
Look at Providence for instance. Elvis told Mark Cauterize was missing a Blackbird kind of song, and what did happen ? Mark wrote a Blackbird-like song, except it's not as fresh.
Working with someone who has no preconceptions about Mark as an artist may do wonders, because he would probably stop repeating himself so much

chtimixeur wrote:The weird thing about Mark is he keeps saying he wants to improve constantly and not repeat himself whatsoever. But meanwhile, he's unwilling to change the producer he's been working with for 9 years.

What about taking a leap of faith and not doing the easy thing for once ?
As "talented" as Elvis is, he knows Mark way too much to have any creative input on him anymore.
Look at Providence for instance. Elvis told Mark Cauterize was missing a Blackbird kind of song, and what did happen ? Mark wrote a Blackbird-like song, except it's not as fresh.
Working with someone who has no preconceptions about Mark as an artist may do wonders, because he would probably stop repeating himself so much

A thousand times this. Providence felt so much like it was just trying to be another Blackbird. Fortress was an epic as well, but it at least had its own personality. Providence just felt like a copy.

That's weird. I don't recognize Mark repeating himself over and over again at all. No AB record looked very much the same as the one before and Cauterize sounds different from All I was. Possibly Dust will sound similar to Cauterize as beiing recorded in the same session, but I myself do think the years that Mark repeated himself the most were probably by far (!) the earlier Creed-years, and even then it was not irritating. The AB and Tremonti records show a musician in constant development, I just don't get it that someone would call his last 6 records an artist repeating himself over and over again. But Ok, that's what these forums are made for, to share different opinions.

riemslag1 wrote:That's weird. I don't recognize Mark repeating himself over and over again at all. No AB record looked very much the same as the one before and Cauterize sounds different from All I was. Possibly Dust will sound similar to Cauterize as beiing recorded in the same session, but I myself do think the years that Mark repeated himself the most were probably by far (!) the earlier Creed-years, and even then it was not irritating. The AB and Tremonti records show a musician in constant development, I just don't get it that someone would call his last 6 records an artist repeating himself over and over again. But Ok, that's what these forums are made for, to share different opinions.

We're not saying he re-uses riffs or anything of that nature. But I'd say since Blackbird he hasn't really changed his writing style all that much. Some of us would like to hear the band do something different. Like for me, personally, I'd love for them to connect with Butch Vig and do an entire album to tape with no effects.

Indeed analog recording could result in something really special. Not many artists nowadays will try to do so unfortunately.

I still don't understand why people don't like Elvis. Usually when I look up the mixers they suggest the tracks sound underproduced to me. His work sounds fuller to me.

Fish Tacos wrote:I still don't understand why people don't like Elvis. Usually when I look up the mixers they suggest the tracks sound underproduced to me. His work sounds fuller to me.

I don't mind Elvis, and I really don't mind the production on Cauterize, or Dust for that matter.

There's just one thing that irks me the tiniest bit, and it's that overly dry and crunchy guitar tone. It works for these albums, because the bass balances it out, and it actually makes notes that would be drowned out on most albums sound prominent here. But I still know it's there.

And it's there on a fair few Elvis albums. I'm familiar with many of these because I love a lot of genres, including post-hardcore. Take a quick listen to some of these, and you'll hear that same overly dry guitar tone.

2006 - Escape the Fate - Dying Is Your Latest Fashion
2009 - Blessthefall - Witness
2011 - Blessthefall - Awakening
2011 - Falling In Reverse - The Drug In Me Is You (really noticeable here)

It's also prominent on Blackbird. I hear the guitar on that album as trebly and crunchy, but it's again balanced out by the bass. Now that I'm listening, I hear it a bit on Fortress too, but to a lesser extent.

Again, it's not a complaint, I just hear it and it's very prominent.

Take The Sun wrote:I don't mind Elvis, and I really don't mind the production on Cauterize, or Dust for that matter.

There's just one thing that irks me the tiniest bit, and it's that overly dry and crunchy guitar tone. It works for these albums, because the bass balances it out, and it actually makes notes that would be drowned out on most albums sound prominent here. But I still know it's there.

And it's there on a fair few Elvis albums. I'm familiar with many of these because I love a lot of genres, including post-hardcore. Take a quick listen to some of these, and you'll hear that same overly dry guitar tone.

2006 - Escape the Fate - Dying Is Your Latest Fashion
2009 - Blessthefall - Witness
2011 - Blessthefall - Awakening
2011 - Falling In Reverse - The Drug In Me Is You (really noticeable here)

It's also prominent on Blackbird. I hear the guitar on that album as trebly and crunchy, but it's again balanced out by the bass. Now that I'm listening, I hear it a bit on Fortress too, but to a lesser extent.

Again, it's not a complaint, I just hear it and it's very prominent.

Well apparently they (Mark, Myles, etc) all seem to love the crunchy guitar tones. I think I've even heard them refer to it as crunchy before as well

Absolutely. They have to, because I'm sure Mark had the final say on this go 'round. And it REALLY sounds great in the bridge to Cauterize itself.

It's just very noticeable to me since I'm a guitar tone freak. It bothered me when the album first came out, but now it's just kind of there, you know what I mean?

Take The Sun wrote:Absolutely. They have to, because I'm sure Mark had the final say on this go 'round. And it REALLY sounds great in the bridge to Cauterize itself.

It's just very noticeable to me since I'm a guitar tone freak. It bothered me when the album first came out, but now it's just kind of there, you know what I mean?

I guess so Personally tones have never been something I focus on. If it sounds great, that's fucking great! If it sounds alright, I don't really mind.

I definitely enjoy the sound of this album more than the tone on All I Was, so there's that haha.

I have a massive gripe with Michael Baskette concerning the bass drum on the Cauterize and Dust albums in particular. He doesn't realise that a bass drum should be more feel than it is sound. It is about air movement and capturing the bass and sub bass frequencies, not recording a slappy wet sound that reminds me of a person being hit across the face with a freshly caught fish.

He compensates for this by pushing that slapping sound way up in the mix until it dominates everything. I cannot believe that no one in the band brought this up when they heard the end result, it's amateurish. He's getting paid a fortune to take top of the line gear and make it sound crap. I wonder how many more classic albums he will be allowed to ruin in this fashion. Makes me rage.

I really agree with your post, my review of Dust made the same point you made. The riffs lose their heaviness due to the sound of the bass drum and Elvis's overall production.

Bingo...bass drum. Yeah that's a huge part of the problem. Spot on. It really irritates me. Tie The Noose and Cauterize in particular really seem to have some issues there. I will say though...doesn't really make any sense, but Dust overall sounds way better to me than Cauterize. At least i can say that the production doesn't ruin any songs for me like on Cauterize lol...but i don't know, still doesn't sound great to me. But, like some have mentioned...it's stunning to me that apparently nobody at any point listened to the final mix and took any issue with any of the sound. Several little sections here and there on the album that just sound straight fuzzy and not defined, whether blasted in the car or listened to with earbuds. Oh well. I love the music

I generally don't have a problem with the production, and I love the tones personally. As a guitarist, I will say this; sometimes the different parts do sound mushed together. It doesn't really bother me when I'm listening as much, but when I'm trying to learn a song of theirs it does. If Mark didn't release a tutorial for how to play the chorus for his part on All Hope Is Gone, I wouldn't be able to play it. All you can hear is the power chords and a mesh of guitar sound on top of it. Doesn't bug me when I listen to it, but you literally can't tell what notes/chords are being played when you're trying to learn it for yourself.

A good example is on dust. I know there is some keyboard on the chorus, but I literally can't tell what any note is except the first and last one. It's completely mushed in with everything else. It's like the only thing they try to make sound separate is the vocals from the drums and the guitars. Everything else is blended in with the mix.

Really good posts, guys.
But realistically, nothing will change and Elvis will keep on getting hired to butcher Mark's music.
Some people just like good music to sound like crap, I guess.