Marching In Time

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Mr. Slash
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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Mr. Slash »

Andy92 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:25 pm
Dolo wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:14 pm Not really. Some people just hoped for something different than the last four records. It's a good album, just pretty safe and exactly what I think he would do after TDM. It would be cool if he branched out a little bit, being almost 15 albums into his career as the main songwriters but after all these years you get labelled a certain way and you need to provide for your family so there's not much room to experiment.
The typical hard rock band that changes their sound (Shinedown for example) doesn’t change it for the better. It becomes more pop-like to make more money. The fact that Mark is still making hard rock with some metal riffs thrown in sets him apart over most of the bands in the genre who drift out of it imo.

If his new songs were bland/bad I’d see your point, but he still makes really good hard rock music. Compare Marching in Time to the newest albums from bands like Shinedown, Halestorm, Breaking Benjamin, etc, and the quality is miles ahead.
Yeah, but still I would say that Mark and also AB are going into a more pop-like direction. Just compare these heavy-ass guitar riffs from All I Was to the stuff you hear on Marching In Time. Same goes for WTS compared to any other AB album. Even though this might be rather due to their personal changes in songwriting and guitar playing than due to ambitions becoming the new Nickelback lol. Still, I miss some more heaviness on Marching in Time.

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Re: Marching In Time

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^^ Yeah, but you compare modern AB and Tremonti to bands like modern Shinedown, Theory of a Deadman, Skillet, Pop Evil, Papa Roach, etc. and you note that there is a drastic difference with the way these bands sound. I personally feel like the majority of Active Rock bands has a bit of an identity crisis nowadays and lost what made them cool in the first place. AB and Tremonti nowadays still feels like AB and Tremonti although they still attempt to make small twists to their approaches in sound.

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Re: Marching In Time

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Mr. Slash wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:10 pm Yeah, but still I would say that Mark and also AB are going into a more pop-like direction. Just compare these heavy-ass guitar riffs from All I Was to the stuff you hear on Marching In Time. Same goes for WTS compared to any other AB album. Even though this might be rather due to their personal changes in songwriting and guitar playing than due to ambitions becoming the new Nickelback lol. Still, I miss some more heaviness on Marching in Time.
I think some of the differences are probably personal songwriting choices, but all in all this album still has some pretty heavy moments. Now And Forever and Let That Be Us have some great riffs, and then songs like A World Away just have a heavy sound in general. I think All I Was was mostly a compilation of riffs he had stored up over the years, same from when he was pretty young (Wish You Well for example). So that album was going to have more 80s metal influences to it based on the material he was using.

With an album like Marching In Time, I think you tend to hear how he primarily cares about songwriting. Pretty sure he’s always considered himself a songwriter over a guitarist at least to some degree.

And like Kev mentioned, the changes Mark has made over the years are pretty small. He still sounds like himself. Brent Smith does not sound like Brent Smith much anymore unfortunately.
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: Marching In Time

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I think this is why I appreciate an album liked Saint Asonia's Flawed Design. It's not an album that reinvents the wheel, but in a genre where most bands is having an identity crisis, you know what you got with Adam Gontier and Staind's Mike Mushok and I liked what they brought. They still brought a bit of small twists to it bringing in Within Temptation's Sharon Del Adel to guest vocals in a song and have Starset's Dustin Bates co-write a song and it all works.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by chtimixeur »

Sure, Mark is miles ahead of his active rock contemporaries.
But we know how great he can be, so anytime he's just good, we come here to bitch and moan! :rolleyes

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Andy92 »

I think he’s still better than just good personally, but to each their own.

When most fans want Mark to experiment they just mean they want him to make prog rock. Which that’s a genre that has both good and bad to it as well. Some prog rock is boring cause it just tries to be technical for the sake of it.
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Dan Dando »

This is an interesting discussion. I'm probably in the less populated camp that wouldn't mind it if Mark went further in the pop-rock direction. He often talks about how he grew up on Journey, Rod Stewart etc in addition to metal music, and so I'd just love it if he made a 70s/80s soft-rock inspired album with a Tremonti twist. Maybe in a less cynical parallel universe it would be a possibility :lol

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by chtimixeur »

I have no interest in seeing him doing prog metal. Very few artists can pull it off. Even the mighty Iron Maiden seem to bore a lot of their audience with their longer songs since 2006 (which I personally enjoy, but I can see their flaws).

If Mark went the prog route, he would need to be able to write and play long solos and be a master at transitions, and the latter is one of his only weaknesses as a songwriter. He would need to write songs that flow from start to finish instead of adding parts together, and developping that skill takes time if you wanna do it right.

I just wish the songs were slightly longer (5-6 minutes), and that he didn't use the radio format so much.

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Re: Marching In Time

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chtimixeur wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:24 pm I just wish the songs were slightly longer (5-6 minutes), and that he didn't use the radio format so much.
I can understand that. I get most people don’t really expect him to go full prog rock, I just think in this genre he’s still doing a good job at making music that’s true to the core of hard rock/metal which for most bands that doesn’t really happen at a high quality this many years. He’s been releasing albums since 1997 and I still enjoy every album he’s been a part of. That’s pretty rare for music in general.

I don’t want to come across as someone who doesn’t think there’s room for criticism or desiring something different out of certain songs, but in a genre where so many bands have kinda fallen off in quality over the years, Mark still releases music I really enjoy which is awesome especially considering Marching In Time is his 15th studio album. Dude has released more albums than plenty of artists in the genre and the quality is still high.
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by Bigus »

Another "Elvis" Special.
No dynamics. Another hot recording.
I'll still listen because the album rocks. Another masterpiece.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by cheesedip1 »

——I thought the screams on the newest Breaking Benjamin album helped keep it fresh. Instead of just some chorus that we probably have all heard before.

—-I only liked maybe 3 songs from the latest Saint Asonia album.

——I agree with Dolo here:

“It's a good album, just pretty safe and exactly what I think he would do after TDM”.

——Let me clear something up.

In the Deep is a good example of a newer AB song that has a different feel to it but is still good and is still AB at the end of the day.

MIT album just sounds like the same old stuff Tremonti has always been doing. For the most part. I’d be willing to let that slide if the songs were a bit better.

Of course, I’m still working on digesting this album at the moment.

If MIT the album had a ton of great songs (instead of just good but not great) I wouldn’t care so much about the album not trying something new.

I like rock more than pop.

But honestly I thought the latest Theory Deadman album was pretty damn good because yeah the songs are more pop than rock but they’re so catchy though.

If the latest Shinedown record was all pop songs but they were really great, I wouldn’t care so much about the genre change.

For the record, just like the latest album from Theory /Deadman , I thought the newest Seether album was pretty good.

With MIT, I was hoping Tremonti would have at least one song on there that had a One Day Remains (the album) kind of vibe.

Sorry if my thoughts are all over the place here.

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Re: Marching In Time

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anguyen92 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:18 pm ^^ Yeah, but you compare modern AB and Tremonti to bands like modern Shinedown, Theory of a Deadman, Skillet, Pop Evil, Papa Roach, etc. and you note that there is a drastic difference with the way these bands sound. I personally feel like the majority of Active Rock bands has a bit of an identity crisis nowadays and lost what made them cool in the first place. AB and Tremonti nowadays still feels like AB and Tremonti although they still attempt to make small twists to their approaches in sound.
I used to be very much into the bands you mentioned (maybe swap Pop Evil with RED, and Papa Roach with Black Stone Cherry) but I don't really follow whatever we're doing anymore but I think you're presenting a little bit of whataboutism here:
Me: I think Mark's music is getting repetitive and stale
You: Ohhhh, but similar bands are even more commercial and stale now!

We're talking about Tremonti here and I don't care about what others are doing.
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anguyen92
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Re: Marching In Time

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My main point is I still want to enjoy some bands knowing that they are reliable in what they bring to the table and in this case, those bands are AB and Tremonti. I understand that not everyone is going to think that and they can feel free to express it how they want.

I guess part of those posts I made is me feeling a little frustrated that those kinds of reliable bands are scarce nowadays as I age and fallen out of listening to Active Rock nowadays. I mean it's not like what I read here is uncommon. A Ultimate-Guitar album reviewer whose been pretty fair when it comes to the stuff from the AB camps thought the same things when it comes to Marching in Time (same producer brings not so great quality in sound, playing it too safe, etc.).

I guess, to me, when I read posts where people wanting changes in the way Mark write/records albums, I have a fear that if he does tamper with what works for him nowadays and goes a 180 in direction that goes against what he's built, that I fear that he could end up into that pile of bands I mentioned that are just not as appealing anymore. I get pretty irrationally defensive about that possibility.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by chtimixeur »

I also don't want him to change for the worse.
I hate it when artists I love start chasing the new popular sound, because it makes them sound desperate (looking at you Papa Roach).
I think Mark still hasn't reached his full potential as an artist, and I think it's one of the best compliments you can give to an artist, especially after 25 years.

But in order to reach that potential, he'll have to stop playing it safe, and that means getting rid of Elvis.
I think Mark hasn't realized what a good producer can bring to an artist. When you look at his career, he's only worked with 3 guys:
- John Kurzweg, who was just a local producer who got lucky with Creed. The same thing could be said about Flemming Rasmussen, and I don't think both of these guys bring much to the bands they're working it aside of the engineering.
- Howard Benson, who's basically making all the bands he's working with sound the same.
- Elvis, who's also pushing all his bands into the same radio format. He's always using the same gimmicks, and he's also proved he was a terrible engineer who had no clue how to record cymbals.

I understand why Mark doesn't want to work with anyone else. He probably thinks that all producers will push him towards a more radio friendly sound, like in the Creed days. You can tell he's been scarred by that experienced.
He hasn't worked yet with a talented producer who will push him to think outside the box.
Those guys exist, but working with them would mean getting out of his comfort zone, and when you're getting older, it's something that becomes harder and harder to do, because you're set in your ways.

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Re: Marching In Time

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chtimixeur wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:34 am He hasn't worked yet with a talented producer who will push him to think outside the box.
Those guys exist, but working with them would mean getting out of his comfort zone, and when you're getting older, it's something that becomes harder and harder to do, because you're set in your ways.
Indeed, but it's not always the producer that is responsible for the sound change but the artist himself. There is a Polish band Riverside that has released 7 albums, 5 of which were done in the same studio with the same producer, and the frontman (Mariusz Duda) also released 7 solo records produced by the very same guy and each release is pretty different, because Duda doesn't want to stay in the same place artistically forever. Of course, some experiments are not always successful but at least you try things out.
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Re: Marching In Time

Post by WaywardOne »

Great discussion, all. Gonna throw something more directly MIT related out there though: does anyone else feel like this album has a darker vibe to it overall? His music is lyrically on the darker side, sure. Idk why, I just feel like most of lyrics here go a step further.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by CrowsOnAWire »

To me, all of the combined output from Mark, with Myles and on his own, hits the spot. We have to remember that Tremonti was originally started as an outlet for Mark to indulge his heavier side. It’s not his primary band - which remains Alter Bridge - but when you look at the AB & Tremonti back catalogue as a whole, it has everything. Hard rockers, prog epics, ballads.

In my view, all of the best rock and metal bands throughout history have had that ability to mix it up - great examples are Zeppelin and Metallica.

Marching In Time, like much of Mark’s other solo albums and AB albums, have the heavy bangers, the longer epics and the ballads. As time has gone on, both the Tremonti and AB output has become more progressive and technical - which is a good thing. Not full on prog metal, but more complexity compared to the early days. Fortress and TLH are prime examples from AB, and ADM and a song like Marching In Time are great examples from Tremonti.

However, Mark and Myles will never compromise on melody, which is what sets them apart from pretty much all of the other contemporary metal and rock acts of today. They aren’t metalcore, they aren’t just a radio rock band, they are melodic but also ambitious musically. It’s a winning combo that is rare in todays rock music.

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by nagpo »

I liked the record. Not as good as the last one

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by billdrambis »

It has been so interesting to ready such different opinions on MIT, Mark, his song writing, whats "good music" and whats not etc. A poll might be interesting. Can someone do a poll (cant figure out how) with these options:

When it comes to Tremonti & AB: (check all that apply)

1. I like generally like AB better

2. I like generally like Tremonti better

3. I love them both and consider myself a loyal hard core fan of both

4. I don't necessarily love either, depends on the album and song

5. I generally like metal/prog rock bands better

6. I generally like pop rock better (don't love Mark's heavy side)

7. Tremonti & AB are just one of the many, many rock bands I follow and listen to

8. I like Creed better than AB & Tremonti

9. I am a rock enthusiast but not a musician

10. I play drums/bass/guitar or sing

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Re: Marching In Time

Post by SHEAKENBAKEN »

billdrambis wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:56 pm It has been so interesting to ready such different opinions on MIT, Mark, his song writing, whats "good music" and whats not etc. A poll might be interesting. Can someone do a poll (cant figure out how) with these options:

When it comes to Tremonti & AB: (check all that apply)

1. I like generally like AB better

2. I like generally like Tremonti better

3. I love them both and consider myself a loyal hard core fan of both

4. I don't necessarily love either, depends on the album and song

5. I generally like metal/prog rock bands better

6. I generally like pop rock better (don't love Mark's heavy side)

7. Tremonti & AB are just one of the many, many rock bands I follow and listen to

8. I like Creed better than AB & Tremonti

9. I am a rock enthusiast but not a musician

10. I play drums/bass/guitar or sing
You can only make polls in thread OPs, not regular posts. So this would require a completely new thread if you really wanted to get it polled properly.

But I would choose #'s 2, 7, & 9.

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