The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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chtimixeur
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

Post by chtimixeur »

Mr. Slash wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:49 pm Yannis is a great guitarist. Would he crush Tremonti? I don't think so. But that's a very subjective topic. Both are on a high level, but Mark is the one who stands out as a riff and solo writer.
I was talking about a guitar contest, not a songwriting contest.
These guys Stapp is hiring are virtuosos, which Mark is not. They can play their ass off and shred like madmen without a wrong note.
Mark is a very good guitar player, but when it comes to pure technical skills, he's just not on that same level.

Mr. Slash wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:49 pm Speaking of crushing Tremonti, would Stapp crush Tremonti? Right now, I would say no. Of course, Stapp has a greater stage presence, but Tremonti's vocals are better right now imo. I skipped through the video and Stapp is in an okay shape, still far away from his A-game.
Mark is decent at best on his studio albums.
And he's doing a very good studio Sinatra impression (I'm really excited about that forecoming album).
But live, he still sounds terrible. He just shouts the lyrics, and his voice is blown out almost all the time. And after 10 years, he's still not become a proper frontman.
He's got many incredible skills as a musician, but singing on stage is just not one of them.

Say what you want about Stapp, but he's still a great frontman. He knows how to entertain au audience, and after some rough years in the early 2010's, his voice is still good enough live. He'll never be back to his 1997-2000 level, that's for sure, but he sings in key most of the time, and he doesn't scream instead of singing, which Mark does a lot.
So, for me, it's not even a contest.

nagpo wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:48 pmIf stapp made better decisions (LOL), he would be doing way better as a solo artist. Tremonti is doing amazingly.
No, he isn't.
Just a reminder: he's opening for Daughtry and playing 8-song sets right now.
I'm not bashing the guy, and every band that tours extensively deserves respect, but there is nothing amazing about that accomplishment after 10 years.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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I don't know man, Tremonti is in a place where his solo gig, where he plays his solo material unlike stapp, is making him money. Don't forget he also has a main band which also does really well, Alter Bridge. When I said Tremonti is doing amazingly, I didn't just mean the band, I meant him in all his musical fronts. Tremonti has simply made better career decisions. It's really rare and hard to have a career last as long as mark's without relying on the stuff that made you famous in the first place. Mark keeps reinventing himself and that keeps his career alive. Stapp is still playing playing creed songs which only serves a small niche now.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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nagpo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:05 am Mark keeps reinventing himself and that keeps his career alive.
In what way though? Is there really anything he did recently (say from 2018 until now) that's a lot different compared to 10-15 years ago.
I can't think of anything off the top of my head except for maybe introducing keyboard sounds on Walk the Sky and trying the Sinatra thing.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Dolo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:33 am
nagpo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:05 am Mark keeps reinventing himself and that keeps his career alive.
In what way though? Is there really anything he did recently (say from 2018 until now) that's a lot different compared to 10-15 years ago.
I can't think of anything off the top of my head except for maybe introducing keyboard sounds on Walk the Sky and trying the Sinatra thing.
I think by reinvention nagpo is referring to the formation of Alter Bridge and then Tremonti. As opposed to, like he said, Stapp still playing Creed songs.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Is there really a debate about whether or not Tremonti or Stapp has been more creative the past 15 years when Tremonti has released 9 albums plus an upcoming Sinatra cover record since 2007 and Stapp still books gigs to sing Higher and My Sacrifice.
anguyen92 wrote:Oh well. Deal with it.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Andy92 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:39 pm Is there really a debate about whether or not Tremonti or Stapp has been more creative the past 15 years when Tremonti has released 9 albums plus an upcoming Sinatra cover record since 2007 and Stapp still books gigs to sing Higher and My Sacrifice.
I never used the word 'creative' and I meant 'inventive'. Following the same logic, we can call AC/DC that have released 17 albums creative, forgetting that they've never branched out of their 3-chord blues formula resulting in them never being inventive.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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chtimixeur wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:34 am Say what you want about Stapp, but he's still a great frontman. He knows how to entertain au audience, and after some rough years in the early 2010's, his voice is still good enough live. He'll never be back to his 1997-2000 level, that's for sure, but he sings in key most of the time, and he doesn't scream instead of singing, which Mark does a lot.
So, for me, it's not even a contest.
I'm sorry, but he's an awful frontman nowadays. Even back in his prime it was a matter of taste and you kind of had to go along with it, but I can't remember seeing a video of him from the last 10 years where I genuinely believed him. To be really frank, the way he acts on stage is either comical or painful to me. And that's coming from somebody who enjoyed Stapp's early performances.

I agree Mark is not a frontman by nature, and he's not a fantastic live singer, but at least he's passed the bare minimum level of not looking like a clown.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Dolo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:04 pm
Andy92 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:39 pm Is there really a debate about whether or not Tremonti or Stapp has been more creative the past 15 years when Tremonti has released 9 albums plus an upcoming Sinatra cover record since 2007 and Stapp still books gigs to sing Higher and My Sacrifice.
I never used the word 'creative' and I meant 'inventive'. Following the same logic, we can call AC/DC that have released 17 albums creative, forgetting that they've never branched out of their 3-chord blues formula resulting in them never being inventive.
I was referring to the conversation in general more so than a specific word in a post. It just kinda blows my mind that some people think Stapp’s post-Creed career has been…good? He literally tours as what is basically a Creed cover band.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Dolo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:33 am
nagpo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:05 am Mark keeps reinventing himself and that keeps his career alive.
In what way though? Is there really anything he did recently (say from 2018 until now) that's a lot different compared to 10-15 years ago.
I can't think of anything off the top of my head except for maybe introducing keyboard sounds on Walk the Sky and trying the Sinatra thing.
The entire evolution of AB, none of the records sound the same. Tremonti records evolving to where they are now. They are way more complex and interesting. Sinatra. Actually sticking to his new material. He's constantly been fighting the "creed band with a new singer" criticism for years and that's why he's never played creed as part of AB or Tremonti as far as I know. Maybe this isn't much to you, but sticking to his laurels is what you need to reinvent yourself as an artist and changing your public perception.

Stapp gave in to the pressure to do creed songs post-creed. He knew that's where the money was and that's what people wanted. He didn't stick with his new content. He has tried new types of music, the dub-step song from last year and the AoA that ended in a sort of tragedy. (If ANYONE knows what is going on with that lawsuit please let us know) space between the shadows had a lot of new types of sounds in it too like in Red clouds.

But he doesn't stick to this live. He bills himself as the voice of creed. He should've just went by "Stapp" and only played his own songs. It sounds funny but it would've worked better in the long run.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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nagpo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:05 am The entire evolution of AB, none of the records sound the same. Tremonti records evolving to where they are now. They are way more complex and interesting.
Sorry, but I cannot disagree more. The formula for AB has been pretty much the same for 18 years and with a few exceptions (like maybe bringing Mark to sing lead or introducing keyboard sounds on WTS) all the records sound similar (especially those from 2010s) sonically, musically and lyrically. In case of Tremonti, I can kinda see why you could make a case for Marching in Time and A Dying Machine sounding more refined and interesting than say All I Was, but it's not a world of a difference.
If you wanna check out those who really make their albums different from each other listen to Bring Me the Horizon, Radiohead, Opeth, Steven Wilson, Leprous, Riverside, Lunatic Soul, King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard (blokes were found in 2010 and have since released 20 various studio albums). Some of those got some serious backlash from the fans for going into a completely different directions but at least they had the balls to do so because they constantly want to reinvent themselves.

You could say that Myles has been more inventive and original than Mark considering that his solo stuff is way different than AB and Conspirators stuff where he only handles the lyrics and melodies. But that might be a stretch.

Mark is a really gifted musician and has written some incredible music in his career but the last thing you can say is that all of his records sound very different.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Yeah but your comparing mark to those bands where we're comparing him to stapps efforts. It's in my opinion that his work has been more evolutionary than stapps, both studio and live. I guess that's all.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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nagpo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:05 am When I said Tremonti is doing amazingly, I didn't just mean the band, I meant him in all his musical fronts. Tremonti has simply made better career decisions. It's really rare and hard to have a career last as long as mark's without relying on the stuff that made you famous in the first place. Mark keeps reinventing himself and that keeps his career alive.
Then you should have said he's doing alright, and I wouldn't have disagreed with you.
There is nothing amazing about Mark's solo career. He's basically been releasing the same decent at best album since 2012 again and again. All those songs kinda sound the same, they all follow a similar formula, and the fact that they're all produced by the same producer doesn't help.
IMHO, Mark pushed himself much more creatively during the 1997-2007 era.
Choosing to work with the sampe producer for 15 years was the biggest mistake of his career. 99% of other musicians know what, and they generally switch things after 2 or 3 albums, in order to get a new point of view and some fresh ideas.

Dolo wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:36 am The formula for AB has been pretty much the same for 18 years and with a few exceptions (like maybe bringing Mark to sing lead or introducing keyboard sounds on WTS) all the records sound similar (especially those from 2010s) sonically, musically and lyrically. In case of Tremonti, I can kinda see why you could make a case for Marching in Time and A Dying Machine sounding more refined and interesting than say All I Was, but it's not a world of a difference.

Mark is a really gifted musician and has written some incredible music in his career but the last thing you can say is that all of his records sound very different.
Agreed.

Timotheus wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:46 pm I'm sorry, but he's an awful frontman nowadays. Even back in his prime it was a matter of taste and you kind of had to go along with it, but I can't remember seeing a video of him from the last 10 years where I genuinely believed him. To be really frank, the way he acts on stage is either comical or painful to me. And that's coming from somebody who enjoyed Stapp's early performances.

I agree Mark is not a frontman by nature, and he's not a fantastic live singer, but at least he's passed the bare minimum level of not looking like a clown.
Well, let's agree to disagree. I wasn't a fan of Stapp's 2009-2013 performances, because he was restraining himself and didn't own the stage as he used to. Nowadays, when I watch a video of his, I think he's doing a good enough job with his moves and his voice.
He's just a natural on stage, and he knows how to talk to a crowd and how to keep them entertained.
The whole thing's an act, that's for sure, but that's show business for you.
Look at AC/DC: do you believe a 60+ year old guy would wear a school uniform by choice? It is comical and ridiculous, but that's what fans want to see.

nagpo wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:51 pm Stapp gave in to the pressure to do creed songs post-creed. He knew that's where the money was and that's what people wanted. He didn't stick with his new content. He has tried new types of music, the dub-step song from last year and the AoA that ended in a sort of tragedy. (If ANYONE knows what is going on with that lawsuit please let us know) space between the shadows had a lot of new types of sounds in it too like in Red clouds.

But he doesn't stick to this live. He bills himself as the voice of creed. He should've just went by "Stapp" and only played his own songs. It sounds funny but it would've worked better in the long run.
In theory, I would agree with you, but I think he would have ended playing to 100 people a night in bars and small clubs if he had refused playing Creed stuff.
People just aren't interested in his solo stuff. His albums don't chart, and neither do his singles. I'm surprised he still bothers to release new music, actually.
As for the lawsuit, I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up selling his Creed royalties to pay the AoA twins. I guess we'll know soon.

Andy92 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:27 pm It just kinda blows my mind that some people think Stapp’s post-Creed career has been…good? He literally tours as what is basically a Creed cover band.
What's actually wrong with that?
People loved Creed.
He's giving them what they want, which is the essence of live music.

He'll just always be the Creed guy, so why would he waste an opportunity to please nostalgic crowds and support his family?

Also, I think his cover band is actually better than 2009-2010 Creed. Those years were embarrassing, both vocally and musically.
At least, Stapp is respecting the original tempos and tunings.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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nagpo wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:33 am Yeah but your comparing mark to those bands where we're comparing him to stapps efforts. It's in my opinion that his work has been more evolutionary than stapps, both studio and live. I guess that's all.
Well, how else can you interpret 'The entire evolution of AB, none of the records sound the same' in the light of those words? You should have said it's only Mark vs. Stapp to be clear.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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chtimixeur wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:47 amWell, let's agree to disagree.
:cheers
Dolo wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:17 amWell, how else can you interpret 'The entire evolution of AB, none of the records sound the same' in the light of those words? You should have said it's only Mark vs. Stapp to be clear.
What's the same in virtually every Tremonti song is the structure of the song. Shed My Skin, Buried Alive, Wish You Well and The Last Hero are all very different sounding songs, but they're all structured like a pop song with 3 choruses. This is really my biggest issue with them creatively, because there are so many ways you can structure a pop song, and somehow they seem to think this one way is the only way to go. They might an add an intro or an extended bridge here or there, but it's just as formulaic and predictable as With Arms Wide Open, Higher or My Sacrifice.

Having said that, I think it's a stretch to say 18 years of Alter Bridge sounds the same. While One Day Remains sounded like Creed, it's still a departure from what Mark did before (introducing solos, etc...). With Blackbird they reinvented their sound completely, and I think they pushed that sound again on Fortress. Fortress was in 2013 and in 2019 they were already experimenting with synths and different songwriting methods.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Timotheus wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:58 am What's the same in virtually every Tremonti song is the structure of the song. Shed My Skin, Buried Alive, Wish You Well and The Last Hero are all very different sounding songs, but they're all structured like a pop song with 3 choruses. This is really my biggest issue with them creatively, because there are so many ways you can structure a pop song, and somehow they seem to think this one way is the only way to go. They might an add an intro or an extended bridge here or there, but it's just as formulaic and predictable as With Arms Wide Open, Higher or My Sacrifice.
Exactly. This is my biggest issue with Tremonti/AB as well.
Having said that, I think it's a stretch to say 18 years of Alter Bridge sounds the same. While One Day Remains sounded like Creed, it's still a departure from what Mark did before (introducing solos, etc...). With Blackbird they reinvented their sound completely, and I think they pushed that sound again on Fortress. Fortress was in 2013 and in 2019 they were already experimenting with synths and different songwriting methods.
Yeah, to be fair, having thought about this 18 years might have been a bit of a stretch on my part. They definitely did reinvent their sound completely on Blackbird compared to ODR and they took it up a notch with every release, but except for a couple of cool inventive moments like the nylon string intro to Achilles, introducing Mark as a lead singer, 7-string guitar on Show Me a Leader and synth sounds on WTS, there hasn't been a lot of change in their sound in about last 9-12 years.
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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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Just my personal opinion but everything that drew me to Creed back in the day, two-plus decades ago, has lived on in Mark's continued musical output. The songwriting, the musical chops, the passion, everything. And he keeps getting better, adding more tools to his arsenal. It's only bolstered my take that he was the driving force and the heart of Creed.

Nothing Stapp has done since has resonated with me. At all. 'Jesus Was A Rockstar??' No thank you.

I don't wish him ill, I'm glad he seems to be in a reasonably good place physically and emotionally, but I couldn't care less about what he's doing creatively. I think Creed is over and I'm more than okay with it. I'd prefer it, actually. Onward and upward.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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scarecrow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:02 am Just my personal opinion but everything that drew me to Creed back in the day, two-plus decades ago, has lived on in Mark's continued musical output. The songwriting, the musical chops, the passion, everything. And he keeps getting better, adding more tools to his arsenal. It's only bolstered my take that he was the driving force and the heart of Creed.

Nothing Stapp has done since has resonated with me. At all. 'Jesus Was A Rockstar??' No thank you.

I don't wish him ill, I'm glad he seems to be in a reasonably good place physically and emotionally, but I couldn't care less about what he's doing creatively. I think Creed is over and I'm more than okay with it. I'd prefer it, actually. Onward and upward.
lol everyone always mentions jesus was a rockstar out of 4 post creed records. That's a little unfair but whatever. Mark may have been all that guided you to creed back in the day, but I kinda doubt that. The music for sure originates with mark and then evolves when the two get together, at least when the first three records. But most of the lyrics that everyone loves by creed and the catchy vocal melody's were all done by stapp/ And even since creed he still puts out good, meaningful lyrics with catchy melodies.

I think Creed is both of the guys. Which is why I'm glad neither of them has tried the guns n roses route.

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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scarecrow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:02 am The songwriting
And he keeps getting better
This, I don't get.
I think Mark has actually regressed as a songwriter after Blackbird.
He had more original ideas back in the day, and these days, it feels like all his songs follow the same formula.

He doesn't write songs anymore, he builds them.
So I know someone is gonna tell me that was already the case back in the Creed days, but I'm not hearing it and these albums still sound organic to me.

Don't mistake me, most of the AB and Tremonti songs are still very enjoyable, but I don't know, I'm never surprised anymore by what I hear.
That's why this Sinatra project feels like a breath of fresh air. Finally something new!

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Re: The Official SCOTT STAPP Thread

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chtimixeur wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:15 am He doesn't write songs anymore, he builds them.


8:53. Yet, he thinks it's the only way to go.
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Re: poke poke poke

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Representation of Mark's portfolio if he'd build houses :shifty

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Wonder what's Stapp's would look like... :D
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