Walk the Sky Europe 2019 Tour w/ Shinedown and the Raven Age

[anguyen92]

Shinedown's music is so boring compared to AB's. Their first two albums were great; after that they've done nothing interesting.

Interesting. Their 3rd album, Sound of Madness, to Shinedown fans is the equivalent of Blackbird to AB fans. They're my two fav bands and I place Sound of Madness, top to bottom, on par with Blackbird. IMO, hands down the top two modern hard rock albums.

I like various songs from Sound of Madness. They choose really good songs to put as singles that really launched them into, at the very least, a co-headlining arena band. However, I don't see that album as par with Us and Them. That album and Blackbird are pretty close to modern hard rock album perfection as it can get. It also helps that both albums had a 7+ minute song as a centerpiece.

[rscotta831]

Only 17 songs? That’s a shame

They played 12 for us in the states.

To be fair it was a co-headlining set in the USA and a proper headlining set in Europe

Right...with Skillet, who is FAR less popular than Shinedown in the U.S.

At the concert I attended in Birmingham, there were several Skillet fans. Most of them left when Skillet was done. Not surprising since the music is vastly different. IMO, it makes more sense to have more similar bands. Not TOO similar, but a LOT more similar than AB and Skillet.

[rscotta831]

Shinedown's music is so boring compared to AB's. Their first two albums were great; after that they've done nothing interesting.

Interesting. Their 3rd album, Sound of Madness, to Shinedown fans is the equivalent of Blackbird to AB fans. They're my two fav bands and I place Sound of Madness, top to bottom, on par with Blackbird. IMO, hands down the top two modern hard rock albums.

I like various songs from Sound of Madness. They choose really good songs to put as singles that really launched them into, at the very least, a co-headlining arena band. However, I don't see that album as par with Us and Them. That album and Blackbird are pretty close to modern hard rock album perfection as it can get. It also helps that both albums had a 7+ minute song as a centerpiece.

Again...interesting. Us And Them is widely recognized as the worst Shinedown album. In fact, I've heard Brent Smith mention that it was such a failure, they had to go in a different direction. They did with Sound Of Madness and it re-launched their careers.

Shinedown hasn't semi-routinely played anything from Us And Them since 2013, which was "Save Me." And it hasn't been a staple since 2010. That, "Shed Some Light" and "Heroes" all good songs from that album. Not much else beyond that and overall was a major disappointment for them and their fans. Glad they went in a different direction because my wife & I would not be listening to them/attending their concerts the last 11 years.

Side note: The first time we ever saw AB and Shinedown was on the same day at a 3-day outdoor festival on 09/23/2005. http://legacy.decaturdaily.com/decaturd ... /jam.shtml (The Star 99/Rocket 95.1 stage has invited Alter Bridge (Creed with a different singer) and Shinedown to the Sept. 23 festivities.) I had heard some of their songs from their respective 2003/2004 albums, but wasn't a fan of either yet. Sadly, there is no mention on setlist.fm of either band playing that day and I have forgotten how many and which songs (other than "Find The Real" because it was their radio single) they eached played. https://www.setlist.fm/festival/2005/bi ... 62d6e.html EDIT: I just added them to the setlist.

[Timotheus]

Na, it's their best album.

[anguyen92]

I understand the whole "if the guys that created the album thinks its a failure, then it's a wash." I think I read something that Myles didn't think much of the Mayfield Four album, Fallout, but some people here like it.

I don't know how Us and Them can be considered a failure though (despite Brent Smith going through a rough time personally). Sold a million copies and certified platinum. Heroes, Save Me, and I Dare You were great singles (especially with WWE which is how I got into Shinedown). Lady So Divine is a great epic of a song that is almost on par with Blackbird (even though it's not really a career-defining song for them that Blackbird is for AB) and they had good deep cuts like Trade Yourself In, Atmosphere, Fake, and Some Day.

Again, I get it that in Brent Smith's mind, at the time, that this band line-up isn't going to work out in the long run, for whatever reason, and that it's a hard album for him to reminisce in pleasant thoughts. However, I don't see how Us and Them is the worst Shinedown album when you have Threat to Survival. Now to me that one was a bit of a wash.

Oddly enough, I think in the long run, Shinedown will see Threat to Survival like AB did with The Last Hero. It's an album they made for its time and they thought its the right decision to go to at the time, but I don't see them reliving it much in the live shows and newer albums like ATTENTION ATTENTION and Walk the Sky looks to be much more appreciated among their respective fanbases than the album before it.

[gbruin]

Damn, I WISH Shinedown would put out another album like Us And Them. Sound Of Madness is their only album since that was even remotely comparable - imo.

[CrowsOnAWire]

I think this discussion proves that Alter Bridge are on another planet to Shinedown. Far and away the better band.

[George]

Damn, I WISH Shinedown would put out another album like Us And Them. Sound Of Madness is their only album since that was even remotely comparable - imo.

Totally agree.

[abw1987]

Interesting. Their 3rd album, Sound of Madness, to Shinedown fans is the equivalent of Blackbird to AB fans. They're my two fav bands and I place Sound of Madness, top to bottom, on par with Blackbird. IMO, hands down the top two modern hard rock albums.

Again...interesting. Us And Them is widely recognized as the worst Shinedown album. In fact, I've heard Brent Smith mention that it was such a failure, they had to go in a different direction. They did with Sound Of Madness and it re-launched their careers.

Interesting indeed! As mentioned, I really only like Shinedown's first two albums, and honestly I've probably listened to Us and Them more than Leave a Whisper. So it's funny to think Shinedown fans regard it as their worst – I think it's consistently solid. From bangers like "Heroes" and "Yer Majesty" to earworms like "Save Me" and "I Dare You", not to mention "Lady So Divine" with its standout bridge musicianship (which is up there with the outro to Alter Bridge's "Show Me a Sign", IMO). Even the relatively lackluster final third is pretty good.

I can see why Shinedown fans would consider Sound of Madness to be the band's Blackbird, as it basically defined the sound of the band going into their era of commercial success. It does have some decent songs like the title track, "Devour", "What a Shame", and "Son of Sam". But it also represents their devolution in to a less interesting band with bores like "Second Chance", "The Crow & the Butterfly", and "If You Only Knew". (Songs which I'm sure are highly regarded by the aformentioned contingent of new era Shinedown fans.)

Anyway, I'm probably violating my own preference for keeping threads on topic here.

[rscotta831]

I understand the whole "if the guys that created the album thinks its a failure, then it's a wash." I think I read something that Myles didn't think much of the Mayfield Four album, Fallout, but some people here like it.

I don't know how Us and Them can be considered a failure though (despite Brent Smith going through a rough time personally). Sold a million copies and certified platinum. Heroes, Save Me, and I Dare You were great singles (especially with WWE which is how I got into Shinedown). Lady So Divine is a great epic of a song that is almost on par with Blackbird (even though it's not really a career-defining song for them that Blackbird is for AB) and they had good deep cuts like Trade Yourself In, Atmosphere, Fake, and Some Day.

Again, I get it that in Brent Smith's mind, at the time, that this band line-up isn't going to work out in the long run, for whatever reason, and that it's a hard album for him to reminisce in pleasant thoughts. However, I don't see how Us and Them is the worst Shinedown album when you have Threat to Survival. Now to me that one was a bit of a wash.

Oddly enough, I think in the long run, Shinedown will see Threat to Survival like AB did with The Last Hero. It's an album they made for its time and they thought its the right decision to go to at the time, but I don't see them reliving it much in the live shows and newer albums like ATTENTION ATTENTION and Walk the Sky looks to be much more appreciated among their respective fanbases than the album before it.

So which Shinedown album didn't sell a million copies and wasn't certified platinum? I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet a copper penny, without checking, Us and Them, is their least selling album.

Like many sophomore albums following an extraordinary debut album, many of them are sold solely based on the strength of the debut album. As a Shinedown hopeful repeat of their debut album, I too bought the 2nd album, but left disappointed, feeling they were just another typical millennial left by the wayside.

It was only when Sound of Madness hit in 2008 that instantly rejuvenated me EXACTLY how Blackbird did.

Agreed to an extent Threat To Survival was not their best album. But IMO, it's better than Us And Them. Yes I know our opinions will vastly differ, just the same if we're debating AB albums. Again, they haven't had a staple from Us and Them played live since 2010.

Shinedown has played stuff off Threat To Survival WAY more than anything off Us and Them the last 14 years. It's not even close.

I don't believe it'll take AB 9+ years to re-introduce a song from The Last Hero on tour. I believe the reason is the Last Hero album was too much a "lengthy" epic album. Parts of it will make its way back on tour. It's just too damn good not to.

[anguyen92]

Well, so far, even though these are recent albums and albums released in an age that rock album don't go platinum as much, these are the following albums that has not gone platinum (but has still gone gold, except for their most recent one, but give it time since it was out in 2018): Amaryllis, Threat to Survival, and ATTENTION ATTENTION. Also, it is confirmed by the RIAA that Us and Them did go Platinum. It may have taken 13 years, but it still got the job done.

https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab ... S+AND+THEM

On another note, as a guy that knew Shinedown for a good while (like late 2000s), I personally find it disappointing for a band like Shinedown that released two great albums, released a 3rd album that got them the mainstream recognition that they wanted and then they decided to go more poppy and delivered songs that aren't as interesting to me in comparison to Leave a Whisper and Us and Them (and honestly, Us and Them and Blackbird are not that different in terms of sound and style.).

Oh well, Shinedown are successful nowadays and have a good fanbase and I have moved on to other bands. It happens. I'm still going to their show at the Wiltern in May. Paid a pretty penny for it, but I'm hoping their setlist can be different than what they would play at their amphitheater shows (especially when they are advertising the tour to include deep cuts and b-sides in addition to their usual stuff).

[VigilantSteve]

Yeah, I find it shocking that anyone could possibly think that Us and Them is the worst Shinedown album. Though I really haven't heard much from their last 2 albums so I can't give an accurate opinion on them, Us and Them is easily the best of their first 4 albums to me and it's not even close.

[abw1987]

Reflecting on this tour and looking ahead to the upcoming US run, I do hope they start mixing up their set lists a bit more.

Looking at their sets from the European run, they opened with WYR>Isolation>CTL>PNM>GODGB at almost every show except the first two, where GODGB was preceded by either WK or COAW, and Lisbon where they squeezed BNS in before PNM. Same with the end of the sets: they closed with OYE>Metalingus>Godspeed>ATP almost every time except the first two shows and Oslo.

Those 9 songs comprise half of the set already given they played 17 songs every night, except for 3 nights when they only played 16, and Leipzig when they technically played 18 since Myles sneaked half of WL in before WOY. So basically they only mixed things up during the middle 8 songs of each set list, and even then there wasn't a whole lot of variety. Looking at the tour statistics, they only played 27 unique songs across 25 shows, and they played 12 of the same songs every night (so basically 2/3 of the set)!

I hate to sound like a complainer since I'm obviously a huge fan. I do give them credit for not playing the same *exact* set list every night like some other bands do. And I am thankful they have finally gotten off the close-every-show-with-"Rise-Today" train. I think it's cool they are rotating a bunch of songs off of WTS, and have brought back ILM and even a couple deeper cuts like BID.

I also recognize the challenges that surely come with crafting set lists, especially six albums into their career. Given AB's deep catalogue, not to mention all of the guys' various side projects, I'm sure it takes a lot to feel well-practiced enough to add each additional song to their rotation. Meanwhile they are trying to cater to the casual attendee who might only know the hits, and would likely leave disappointed if they didn't hear some of AB's staples. (Having attended plenty of other bands' shows, I know all too well the expectations of a non-fanatic.) Yet, they don't want to bore the die-hards... so it's a tough balance.

I get all that, and even then I'm probably oversimplifying the process of adding new songs to the rotation. Even so, I'm hoping they add more variety to their shows. Change up the opening and closing blocks. Pull in more deep cuts from all six albums. Drop some of the regular songs if needed. Lengthen the sets if it helps create more space. IMO mixing things up is the easiest way to keep your shows fresh, to keep the band excited, and to keep fans engaged.

[The Dissident]

I partially agree with you. I feel like the set has been fairly well balanced with songs they have to play and some newer tracks. But I do agree their setlists should be 20 songs each. Looking at their Europe shows and their USA preview run I think the following could be a good and ideal setlist at 20 songs and some rotations

• One Life
  1. Wouldn't You Rather
  2. Isolation
  3. Buried Alive/White Knuckles/Brand New Start
  4. Pay No Mind/In The Deep/Native Son
  5. Ghosts Of Days Gone By
  6. Forever Falling/Burn It Down [Mark]
  7. Crows On A Wire/My Champion
  8. Come To Life
  9. In The Deep/Native Son/Take The Crown/Dying Light
  10. Rise Today
  11. In Loving Memory [Acoustic]
  12. Watch Over You [Acoustic]
  13. Cry Of Achilles
  14. Water Rising
  15. Blackbird
  16. Addicted To Pain/Open Your Eyes
  17. Metallingus
  ----
  18. Godspeed
  19. Broken Wings
  20. Open Your Eyes/ Addicted To Pain

It puts 6 Walk the sky tracks into the setlist, 6 rotating slots to shift things around although only 4 really are rotating. It is by no means perfect but I think this based on what they have played would be closer to Ideal.

However I think this would be a stronger 20 song setlist

• 1. Clear Horizon
  2. Isolation
  3. Addicted To Pain
  4. Ghosts Of Days Gone By
  5. Lover/Shed My Skin
  6. Godspeed/Pay No Mind
  7. Rise Today
  8. In Loving Memory/Watch Over You
  9. Walking On The Sky/Dying Light
  10. Calm The Fire/The Last Hero/Cry Of Achilles/Fortress
  11. Forever Falling
  12. Water Rising
  13. Broken Wings
  14. Calm The Fire/The Last Hero/Cry Of Achilles/Fortress
  15. Calm The Fire/The Last Hero/Cry Of Achilles/Fortress
  16. Metallingus
  17. Blackbird
  ---
  18. Slip To The Void/The End Is Here
  19. Words Darker Than Their Wings
  20. Open Your Eyes

Very much a heavier setlist, I think it would be an incredible show, and as such I doubt it will ever happen, 4 WTS tracks, 3/4 AB III, 4/5 Fortress, 4-6 ODR, 2/3 Blackbird and potentially 1 from TLH

[BSC]

I saw their show in Cardiff, I've been meaning to share my thoughts for some time and this discussion on the set list had prompted me. I might as well start by saying that I don't consider myself to be a massive AB fan anymore. I loved Fortress, but a fair amount of my enthusiasm died for AB with The Last Hero. I attended both Royal Albert Hall gigs and was stunned by them (it was probably my ideal AB set list - full of 'epics'). I really enjoy Walk the Sky. I live 20 minutes away from the arena in Cardiff and they always play there, so whilst my AB fandom had mellowed and I knew they wouldn't beat the Albert Hall gig, I had no reason not to go.

I hated Shinedown last time I saw them supporting AB, so I wasn't particularly keen on the thought of seeing them again, but they weren't so bad. The singer had much less overdrawn speeches this time, but their set did feel scripted and contrived. The singer had his own dance moves at times and at one point he walked into the middle of crowd. I thought he would sing whilst in the crowd, which would have been cool, but instead he simply walked to the middle just to walk back to the stage. It seemed entirely contrived and pointless. However, they got a big response from the crowd and I think they got a greater response from the crowd than Alter Bridge.

I was excited to see Alter Bridge and was looking forward to seeing what new songs they would play as I think Walk the Sky is probably their second best album behind Fortress. I was sat at the back of the arena, so could see all of the standing crowd. They came on with Wouldn't You Rather and I don't think they got any reaction from the crowd apart from the guys at the front. The screens added another element to the show which was good, although at times the visuals felt quite lazy, during Isolation the screens simply showed artwork from the booklet of ABIII on a loop, but I appreciate I may be a bit over-critical here.

I'm pleased that they changed around the set list a bit for this tour, but I think it could do with some large improvements. I say this as someone who isn't as mad on AB as I used to be, but it's only when you hear 17 AB songs in the row you realise just how similar they are. Wouldn't You Rather, Isolation, Come to Life and Crows on a Wire are all quite similar tempo with similar rhythms and tempo. So many songs in the set list were within the mid tempo range that I don't think they got any real reaction from the crowd for the most part. Here's the set list for reference https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/alter-br ... b8f93.html.

I've always felt that AB's arena shows really slow down in energy towards the end, and it was the case with this gig. I get that they want to play the fan favourites towards the end, but I was dying for the tempo to pick up throughout Watch Over You, Blackbird and Open Your Eyes. There was a time a few years back where I was begging for less stuff from the Blackbird album in the set, but this particular set list could have been improved and more varied tempo-wise with songs like Ties that Bind, White Knuckles, Buried Alive (it's a shame they dropped that song) or Writing on the Wall. I think the set list would have felt less same-y if they dropped some of the more standard rockers like Rise Today and Crows for another epic like Fortress or The Last Hero. Given that I really enjoy Walk the Sky, I would have loved to have heard some more songs from that album, particularly deep cuts like Clear Horizon or the title track.

There was some strange crowd interaction during the gig. Mark decided to throw a large soft cuddly toy to the crowd. I thought maybe the crowd would have some fun with it, throw it around and let it make it's way amongst the crowd throughout the gig. Unfortunately (or maybe as expected), Mark threw it and it very quickly vanished in the front row. At the same time, they announced that Mark would give away a guitar during the next song. I've seen artists such as Seether and John Mayer give away guitars, and it's a really cool gesture, but they've always done it at the end of the gig as an off-the-cuff spontaneous thing, I've never seen a band announce they were giving away a guitar mid set, it just felt weird and an attempt to pick up the energy. I really enjoyed Pay No Mind, I think it was the song of the night and it got one of the greatest crowd reactions, but could it be because Mark just offered to give away a guitar prior to the song starting?

I mentioned Shinedown at the start of this post and I'll reference them again. Whilst I don't enjoy their music or their live show, in hindsight I was impressed by them because they got the crowd going a lot more than AB did. Of course, there were some moments like the sing along with Open your Eyes and the jumping with Metalingus (although Shinedown got much more people jumping with one of their songs), but overall the crowd was very stationary and I felt like there was a consistent lack of energy.

I felt that it was the least favourite AB gig I'd seen. However, my Dad went to the gig with me and he felt it was the best AB gig he had been to. One of the main reasons why was because Myles did very little goofing off, he didn't skip many notes and there was only one 'that's right'. I'm clearly in the minority with my slightly negative view of the night, so I'd be interested in hearing from people who attended this gig or this tour and what they thought of it.

I guess the reason for this long post is to consider that a set list isn't just about the individual songs, how weighted it is towards one album or how many deep cuts but also the overall energy and pace of the show. I feel that on this occasion, the energy and pace of the show could have been much improved by just a few tweaks.

Sorry for any typos or grammatical errors.

Edit - one more positive part of the night is that Brian seemed a lot more confident than I remember. Obviously where Myles has put himself to the left of the stage in recent years, it's left a bit of a gap in the centre. I seemed to remember from previous gigs that Brian would tend to hang by the drums most of the time, but during this gig he was stepping into the centre front of the stage whilst Myles was to the left. I'm just trying to point at as many positives as I can as I wouldn't want to be dismissed as a 'hater' for a long post largely full of more negative points

[Dan Dando]

... but could it be because Mark just offered to give away a guitar prior to the song starting?

100 percent. Do you remember that fellow who was suddenly up on another person's shoulders, and he was holding an umbrella in the air? I was so glad that Mark didn't pick him

I may have some more thoughts to offer in response to your post, but I've got a wrist issue atm, so I have to keep the typing brief as much as I can

[MrsPog]

BSC I think you make fair observations. In my opinion Shinedown force more of a reaction from the crowd by encouraging seated guys to stand and getting people to wave their phones in the air - personally I get nothing from that. AB are not a 'physical' band with members running all around the stage and neither do they have an almighty stage production, but they do seem to attract a crowd that really appreciates their music. I agree with your observations about pace, I also missed the likes of Ties That Bind to mix it up a bit. It was almost exactly the same at the Birmingham Arena and the very end of the set seemed to provoke the biggest notable reaction (moshing!) I find it hard to compare the RAH atmosphere with other gigs... that venue is something else and the orchestra bought a whole other dimension to proceedings - but you're right, that set was epic. I always enjoy seeing AB perform together but in this instance I think our US friends have the better deal, seeing the guys in slightly smaller places... that just lends itself to a more electric atmosphere.

[anguyen92]

BSC I think you make fair observations. In my opinion Shinedown force more of a reaction from the crowd by encouraging seated guys to stand and getting people to wave their phones in the air - personally I get nothing from that. AB are not a 'physical' band with members running all around the stage and neither do they have an almighty stage production, but they do seem to attract a crowd that really appreciates their music. I agree with your observations about pace, I also missed the likes of Ties That Bind to mix it up a bit. It was almost exactly the same at the Birmingham Arena and the very end of the set seemed to provoke the biggest notable reaction (moshing!) I find it hard to compare the RAH atmosphere with other gigs... that venue is something else and the orchestra bought a whole other dimension to proceedings - but you're right, that set was epic. I always enjoy seeing AB perform together but in this instance I think our US friends have the better deal, seeing the guys in slightly smaller places... that just lends itself to a more electric atmosphere.

Thank you. I'm glad someone else can see it this way. It also helps that tickets here are slightly cheaper for GA.

[Andy92]

I’ve seen AB 5 times, 3 at festivals and 2 at smaller co-headlining shows. I’ll take the smaller show any day for the energy, although I would like to see them play a true headlining set of around 18 songs one of these days. Most I’ve ever seen is like 11-12, so that’s the drawback to being a US fan.

[jailman]

Us and Them is a GREAT album..

One of those forgotten treasures. They never play anything live off that album anymore. It's more of a gritty album instead of so polished and shit.