Pawns & Kings (Alter Bridge - VII)

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Dolo
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

Post by Dolo »

scarecrow wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:19 pm y'all need to chill lmao

it's not that serious
I'm pretty chilled out when having this discussion. Are you?
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chtimixeur
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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Andy92 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:39 pm The conversation of Mark not stepping outside the box in the midst of releasing a Sinatra project cracks me up lol
I'm talking about original material, not covers.
Just so you know, I'm extremely excited to hear the Sinatra project, and I think Mark is gonna do great.

Blackbirddd wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:40 am I would love to listen an AB Album produced by Howard Benson, every album he has worked on has a perfect quality sound.
Yuck.
He's one of those guys who's almost as bad as Elvis. His sound is synthetic, and most of the albums he produces sound very formulaic.
He's never gonna push the band creatively, on the contrary.
IMHO, Alter Bridge needs producers like Andy Raskulinecz, Arthur Rizk or Jens Bogren, but sadly, these last two guys only work with metal bands.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

Post by rscotta831 »

AB is never not going to work with Elvis. They’ve always been about cohesion, which is a helluva accomplishment in rock given more rock bands split up and/or fail by their 5-year mark than continue on as a whole. Shinedown fired their guitarist and bassist by Year 5.

Yes, some bands change producers early on (like AB did with Elvis), but after 15 years with the same producer, they’re not changing unless Myles and/or Mark decide to start producing their own music like Shinedown’s bassist did.

Mark’s statement in 2019 when asked how they have stayed together for 15 years, “We don’t have any loose cannons.”

Like him or not, we’re stuck with Elvis.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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rscotta831 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:06 am AB is never not going to work with Elvis. They’ve always been about cohesion, which is a helluva accomplishment in rock given more rock bands split up and/or fail by their 5-year mark than continue on as a whole. Shinedown fired their guitarist and bassist by Year 5.

Yes, some bands change producers early on (like AB did with Elvis), but after 15 years with the same producer, they’re not changing unless Myles and/or Mark decide to start producing their own music like Shinedown’s bassist did.

Mark’s statement in 2019 when asked how they have stayed together for 15 years, “We don’t have any loose cannons.”

Like him or not, we’re stuck with Elvis.
I don't know. Rush used the same producer for like their first 8 or 9 albums and then moved on amicably.
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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Crumbso wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:05 pm
rscotta831 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:06 am AB is never not going to work with Elvis. They’ve always been about cohesion, which is a helluva accomplishment in rock given more rock bands split up and/or fail by their 5-year mark than continue on as a whole. Shinedown fired their guitarist and bassist by Year 5.

Yes, some bands change producers early on (like AB did with Elvis), but after 15 years with the same producer, they’re not changing unless Myles and/or Mark decide to start producing their own music like Shinedown’s bassist did.

Mark’s statement in 2019 when asked how they have stayed together for 15 years, “We don’t have any loose cannons.”

Like him or not, we’re stuck with Elvis.
I don't know. Rush used the same producer for like their first 8 or 9 albums and then moved on amicably.
Was Rush’s previous producer at or close to retirement? How much longer did he continue to produce after moving on from Rush?

Elvis is 51, so unless he decides to retire early, I cannot see AB moving on to someone new, unless as mentioned, Myles or Mark starts producing, which is a definite possibility given their precision and perfection of music. My guess as to why neither has thus far is they both have successful solo careers and no time to produce.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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Dolo wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:15 pm Something that just occurred to me in light of what we've been discussing in this and a few other threads, is if we could only get an 4-5 song EP, unrelated to any of the albums, produced by somebody else where those guys could branch out a bit and not think of anything they've ever done, just go for something completely outside of what they've doing for the last 15 years. Obviously, it's not gonna make any sense marketing-wise because AB has always been about huge albums releases with big singles but you've got artists like Bring Me the Horizon that are not afraid of releasing mini-albums with amazing experimentation and going waaaaay out of the comfort zone. That might be because their producer is actually a guy from the band itself, not afraid of crazy ideas, unlike a certain bloke from Florida set in his own ways.
I agree with this, but I'd take it one step further (or more specifically) - a covers EP. I've been clamoring for this for years. Back on the ODR tour, when they were doing cover songs to fill out the shows, they fuggin KILLED it. Kashmir, Highway Star, Sweet Emotion, Whole Lotta Rosie, Rock and Roll, plus Myles' solo/Slash work with Hallelujah, Levon, Rocket Man, Myles doing Fall to Pieces (semi-cover since Slash was still part of it), the list goes on... whether they keep it to classic rock or do something more contemporary like Saint Asonia's bomb-ass cover of Blinding Lights, it's got some mainstream crossover appeal, it's fun, and it shows off their musicianship in a different light.
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Re: "Power chord on 4, then slide to 5, then down to 2..."

Post by zazthespaz »

TenaciousBe wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:42 pm
Dolo wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:15 pm Something that just occurred to me in light of what we've been discussing in this and a few other threads, is if we could only get an 4-5 song EP, unrelated to any of the albums, produced by somebody else where those guys could branch out a bit and not think of anything they've ever done, just go for something completely outside of what they've doing for the last 15 years. Obviously, it's not gonna make any sense marketing-wise because AB has always been about huge albums releases with big singles but you've got artists like Bring Me the Horizon that are not afraid of releasing mini-albums with amazing experimentation and going waaaaay out of the comfort zone. That might be because their producer is actually a guy from the band itself, not afraid of crazy ideas, unlike a certain bloke from Florida set in his own ways.
I agree with this, but I'd take it one step further (or more specifically) - a covers EP. I've been clamoring for this for years. Back on the ODR tour, when they were doing cover songs to fill out the shows, they fuggin KILLED it. Kashmir, Highway Star, Sweet Emotion, Whole Lotta Rosie, Rock and Roll, plus Myles' solo/Slash work with Hallelujah, Levon, Rocket Man, Myles doing Fall to Pieces (semi-cover since Slash was still part of it), the list goes on... whether they keep it to classic rock or do something more contemporary like Saint Asonia's bomb-ass cover of Blinding Lights, it's got some mainstream crossover appeal, it's fun, and it shows off their musicianship in a different light.
Ooh, I like the idea of a cover album/EP! Always have, but using it as a way to try new things while staying in the safe zone of playing music they know people like could be a good eye opener for them in terms of production. Might be a good way for them to give their brains a break from having to come up with new stuff on their own for a few months too.
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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TenaciousBe wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:42 pm
Dolo wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:15 pm Something that just occurred to me in light of what we've been discussing in this and a few other threads, is if we could only get an 4-5 song EP, unrelated to any of the albums, produced by somebody else where those guys could branch out a bit and not think of anything they've ever done, just go for something completely outside of what they've doing for the last 15 years. Obviously, it's not gonna make any sense marketing-wise because AB has always been about huge albums releases with big singles but you've got artists like Bring Me the Horizon that are not afraid of releasing mini-albums with amazing experimentation and going waaaaay out of the comfort zone. That might be because their producer is actually a guy from the band itself, not afraid of crazy ideas, unlike a certain bloke from Florida set in his own ways.
I agree with this, but I'd take it one step further (or more specifically) - a covers EP. I've been clamoring for this for years. Back on the ODR tour, when they were doing cover songs to fill out the shows, they fuggin KILLED it. Kashmir, Highway Star, Sweet Emotion, Whole Lotta Rosie, Rock and Roll, plus Myles' solo/Slash work with Hallelujah, Levon, Rocket Man, Myles doing Fall to Pieces (semi-cover since Slash was still part of it), the list goes on... whether they keep it to classic rock or do something more contemporary like Saint Asonia's bomb-ass cover of Blinding Lights, it's got some mainstream crossover appeal, it's fun, and it shows off their musicianship in a different light.
Yes this is a good idea. Their version of Kashmir is great, with the slow intro and middle section and Mark's solo at the end. They really made it their own. Recording and releasing something like that could result in a big hit. I remember back in the day Nonpoint had a lot of success with their cover of In the Air Tonight.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

Post by Andy92 »

Halestorm likes doing cover EPs between albums. I think it’s a pretty cool idea and would like if AB did that at least once.
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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On the Elvis subject. I understand the decision to keep working with him from a amicable, cohesive point of view. They feel comfortable with him, and they apparently like the sound of the records he produces. I don't think they ever will change producers for reasons oftenly discussed on this board. They don't hear the sonic issues we hear or don't find issues in it, and they probably feel like they have all the artistic freedom they want with Elvis.

But looking from another perspective, they're not only musicians, but also fans of music in general. There must be at least a few producers they must love and have on their bucketlist to have worked with?

On the subject of covers, Disturbed also had a lot of success with their Sound Of Silence cover. I'd be behind a cover on their new album, as long as it's not just a copy of the original version.
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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rscotta831 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:17 pm Was Rush’s previous producer at or close to retirement? How much longer did he continue to produce after moving on from Rush?

Elvis is 51, so unless he decides to retire early, I cannot see AB moving on to someone new, unless as mentioned, Myles or Mark starts producing, which is a definite possibility given their precision and perfection of music. My guess as to why neither has thus far is they both have successful solo careers and no time to produce.
No, they just felt like they had achieved what they could with him and moved on to keep their style evolving in the direction they needed to. I believe Terry Brown (the producer they were working with) carried on for like 35 years more after that. I understand it's super unlikely but I can only dream. I've been disappointed with the production since Blackbird came out :lol but it doesn't mean we can't get great albums. Fortress is by far the closest they've gotten to production greatness with Elvis.
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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Timotheus wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:52 am On the Elvis subject. I understand the decision to keep working with him from a amicable, cohesive point of view. They feel comfortable with him, and they apparently like the sound of the records he produces. I don't think they ever will change producers for reasons oftenly discussed on this board. They don't hear the sonic issues we hear or don't find issues in it, and they probably feel like they have all the artistic freedom they want with Elvis.

But looking from another perspective, they're not only musicians, but also fans of music in general. There must be at least a few producers they must love and have on their bucketlist to have worked with? .
There is no question they hear the sonic issues we hear. Mark refuses to ditch the old school wired guitar in concert. Why when asked? Because “I can hear the difference.” They change guitars nearly every 2-3 songs in concert. They each have around 7-10 pedals/units in front of them. They are perfectionists.

Bottom line is they aren’t going to rock the boat. It’s let the musicians be musicians and let the producer produce. Plus as well-noted on “Wouldn’t You Rather,” Elvis pushed Myles to make it better, so Elvis is a motivator. Bands love that. And yes, they have all the artistic freedom they want with Elvis. They’re not moving on from Elvis unless Myles or Mark starts producing.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 am They change guitars nearly every 2-3 songs in concert.
That's because they use different tunings.
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 amPlus as well-noted on “Wouldn’t You Rather,” Elvis pushed Myles to make it better, so Elvis is a motivator.
It was rather Elvis who pushed for something like 'Wouldn't you Rather' at all because the song hadn't been there earlier. I would say it's a pretty average song for them.
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rscotta831
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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Dolo wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:24 am
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 am They change guitars nearly every 2-3 songs in concert.
That's because they use different tunings.
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 amPlus as well-noted on “Wouldn’t You Rather,” Elvis pushed Myles to make it better, so Elvis is a motivator.
It was rather Elvis who pushed for something like 'Wouldn't you Rather' at all because the song hadn't been there earlier. I would say it's a pretty average song for them.
There are several popular hard rock/metal bands who never change their tuning or guitars in concert…maybe once on a ballad. My sole point was to say they change tuning in concert so often because they are perfectionists. I watched them do this even on their 12-song co-tour with Skillet. They refuse to mail it in. In other words, they care deeply about how they sound. If they’re not raising a stink to Elvis about their sound, then they’re all in agreement. They’re not going to change producers after 15 yrs. They’re just not wired that way.

I was merely pointing out that Elvis pushed Myles to make the song, specifically the chorus, better (regardless if it’s an average song or not). That tells me he’s a motivator and doesn’t mind pushing a well-seasoned musician all the while maintaining professionalism, respect and friendship. Complete crapshoot if they were to sever that relationship.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:53 pm
Dolo wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:24 am
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 am They change guitars nearly every 2-3 songs in concert.
That's because they use different tunings.
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 amPlus as well-noted on “Wouldn’t You Rather,” Elvis pushed Myles to make it better, so Elvis is a motivator.
It was rather Elvis who pushed for something like 'Wouldn't you Rather' at all because the song hadn't been there earlier. I would say it's a pretty average song for them.
There are several popular hard rock/metal bands who never change their tuning or guitars in concert…maybe once on a ballad. My sole point was to say they change tuning in concert so often because they are perfectionists. I watched them do this even on their 12-song co-tour with Skillet. They refuse to mail it in. In other words, they care deeply about how they sound. If they’re not raising a stink to Elvis about their sound, then they’re all in agreement. They’re not going to change producers after 15 yrs. They’re just not wired that way.

I was merely pointing out that Elvis pushed Myles to make the song, specifically the chorus, better (regardless if it’s an average song or not). That tells me he’s a motivator and doesn’t mind pushing a well-seasoned musician all the while maintaining professionalism, respect and friendship. Complete crapshoot if they were to sever that relationship.
Changing tunings during a concert is not a sign of being perfectionist. Their songs are played in about 20 different tunings total. They aren't the type of band that want to stay with one tuning for all songs.
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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:53 pmI was merely pointing out that Elvis pushed Myles to make the song, specifically the chorus, better (regardless if it’s an average song or not). That tells me he’s a motivator and doesn’t mind pushing a well-seasoned musician all the while maintaining professionalism, respect and friendship. Complete crapshoot if they were to sever that relationship.
And at this point in their careers after all of the BS when it comes to Wind-Up and DC3, I think the band really values, above all else, a good team around them that can provide a form of stability and morale in all aspects. I think that's mainly the reason why every band in the AB and Sevendust circles (outside of Slash since he's the one calling the shots and has his own group of good people) has the same management and same producer.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:53 pmIn other words, they care deeply about how they sound.
They absolutely don't.
They write great songs, no one can deny that, but they sound really bad, both live and in the studio.
As I've said here before, I can't think of another top tier rock band who sounds so bad, again and again and again. Some bands might hire a wrong producer once, but they usually correct that mistake the next time. Sadly, that isn't the case with AB.

It's been discussed to death here for more than a decade, but both Mark and Myles keep being in absolute denial when it comes to Elvis' skills as an engineer. They're probably the only two guys on Earth who think he's amazing. :shrug
He may be a great motivator and friend, but there's a reason almost no one outside of the AB camp (meaning Tremonti, Myles, Projected, Slash, Wolfie and Sevendust) wants to work with him.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

Post by anguyen92 »

Falling in Reverse and this Japanese band called Coldrain seems to be regulars when it comes to working with Elvis.

As for how AB sounds, I get that live, they have has their flaws in the sound, but you can't blame Elvis for that, now can you? If memory serves me right, Live At Royal Albert Hall was not mixed by Elvis, but sure, go ahead and blame him for that as well.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

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maximzub wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:18 pm
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:53 pm
Dolo wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:24 am
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 am They change guitars nearly every 2-3 songs in concert.
That's because they use different tunings.
rscotta831 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:59 amPlus as well-noted on “Wouldn’t You Rather,” Elvis pushed Myles to make it better, so Elvis is a motivator.
It was rather Elvis who pushed for something like 'Wouldn't you Rather' at all because the song hadn't been there earlier. I would say it's a pretty average song for them.
There are several popular hard rock/metal bands who never change their tuning or guitars in concert…maybe once on a ballad. My sole point was to say they change tuning in concert so often because they are perfectionists. I watched them do this even on their 12-song co-tour with Skillet. They refuse to mail it in. In other words, they care deeply about how they sound. If they’re not raising a stink to Elvis about their sound, then they’re all in agreement. They’re not going to change producers after 15 yrs. They’re just not wired that way.

I was merely pointing out that Elvis pushed Myles to make the song, specifically the chorus, better (regardless if it’s an average song or not). That tells me he’s a motivator and doesn’t mind pushing a well-seasoned musician all the while maintaining professionalism, respect and friendship. Complete crapshoot if they were to sever that relationship.
Changing tunings during a concert is not a sign of being perfectionist. Their songs are played in about 20 different tunings total. They aren't the type of band that want to stay with one tuning for all songs.
Just saw Queensryche. 2nd row. Filmed the entire concert. Played 12 songs from 5 different albums. Lead guitarist Michael Wilton never changed guitars. He’s been playing for 41 years. Didn’t notice an array of pedals and gadgets in front of where he stood. They are considered the pioneers of progressive hard rock and are well-documented, much like AB, to have advanced and evolved every successive album, so they have a vast array of different tunings on their albums, but he doesn’t switch much in concert. That’s not to say he didn’t use to, but from what I saw a few weeks ago, he doesn’t. But when it comes to their albums, he is a perfectionist. Same went for his former lead guitarist mate, Chris DeGarmo.

Every AB concert I’ve seen in person or on video, Myles and Mark are changing guitars and mashing pedals constantly.

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Re: Alter Bridge - VII

Post by SHEAKENBAKEN »

At about 20:50 in this new interview, Mark mentioned he thinks he'll be singing one song on the record. :D :rockon :mtrocks And that the record will most likely be 12 songs.
Last edited by SHEAKENBAKEN on Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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